Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Why do we find it more difficult?
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Yeah yeah people have less friends as they grow older I wonder why?
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
oh well I was I was looking at that for them, sort of optimistic standpoint.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Alright
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
well we don’t need it’s like what quality rather than quantity. We don’t need 100 rubbish, we don’t need a hundred friends in the Student Union.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Of course. Yeah
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
we might only need three, three close friends that we talk to.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
yeah I guess. I guess another part of it on the more positive side is that we look for more genuine, less superficial friends as we get older and if we find that superficiality like, like personally in my case so if I find people like that with me the superficial side and the superficial conversations like what dance music? Doesn’t go much deeper? A kind of start losing interest in those people and another thing about growing older you know, some people don’t grow with you and they, they’re being held back in another decade I find. So , I can’t had a friend like a couple of years back think 2016 I think, I stopped being friends with him and it was because all he seemed to want to was Hard House which is the dance music that we used we used to listen to. I said listen to any looks I find it a bit boring even and again I’ll put it on for a couple hours, each week but hardly that not I found he was kind of stuck in the past and wasn’t interested in more depthful conversations. I think it really hard like talking about like politics or, or any issues that were going on at the moment because it just didn’t pay attention to any of it. Yeah.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
I know it becomes disappointing.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
yeah yeah.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
I mean who, who knows maybe earlier on. We don’t notice our disappointment which kind of pile in on some of us.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
yeah
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
But then maybe later on someone becomes more aware where they hang on a minute this is not good enough for me
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
yeah yeah yeah. I mean that was another thing with this friend was that I felt kind of used actually by him because when we were on nights out and we wanted to meet women you know what you do at my age, I found that, that was all it was about that evening it wasn’t let’s talk about our lives and what we’re going through, and what we think about it, was more like ‘look at that bird over there’, you know, ‘let’s go chat her up’ could you say something first no you go first and that was all of us and that’s great maybe if you feel to get drunk but I mean if you know want to if you want to chat up the same thing.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
If you want to try some women.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I just need to tap that something that’s what he was want stay with yeah yeah I did one thing that was nice too but I wanted to have a depth full conversation you know friendship that’s why I stopped being friends with him if in any way I would, that’s a precursor to other people changing friends yeah.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
I incidentally this might go without saying I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong we’ve got we’re saying let’s go out and chat up some women.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
oh no it’s like it like yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
It depends. That’s what you like.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I’d be talking about something normal and I remember he said ‘James I was trying to chat that bird up’ and I’m just interested in everything I had to say that’s why I felt that’s what I felt. Yeah yeah yeah really superficial I thought yeah so.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Did he was he interested in how you felt about your chatting up women?
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I mean yeah he liked that more he liked that part of intervention much more but if I wanted to talk about basically anything that I was interested in I just did want to go back if he wasn’t interested today he was interested yeah or I feel something out there. Got my proper tip.Yeah as I said before we had to change so I might out I was just saying yeah the kind of a point in the friendship where I realised it wasn’t going to get much more depthful than going out, chatting up birds and then when we weren’t doing that there was no more substance to conversations. It’s always superficial things like partying you know dance music that we used to listen to that we’re still talking about ten years later just wasn’t that interesting to me anymore and I just felt like there’s much much more to the world than the things we were talking about and I guess, see the other thing is I thought it’s narcissistic too and from what I’ve read narcissism can hold you back your emotional development is that why?
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Hold you hold you back
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
In my emotional development is that right?
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
well I’d say see the other way around I’d say narcissism is let’s say a big dose of narcissism. Is like a consequence of emotional development that didn’t take place. It’s an outcome.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Oh right.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Let me say a bit more. Narcissism it’s something we’ve all got. So, if you know in a way it’s there right from the start, when we were born. Because when we’re born we we don’t think in words and concepts if we could we’d we would believe that our mother and ourselves are one thing. Yes I know it could might sound a bit crazy but was even a guy called Winnicott who said “there’s no such thing as a baby, there’s only only a nursing couple” you know the woman, the mother and the baby together so the idea is that the baby just experiences the whole world there’s one thing which is it and it’s only later on after a few months gradually baby starts to realize hang on hang on this is that bloke over there. Oh it’s dad. Wait a minute so that means I’m not dad so there’s other thing apart from me.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I actually remember that I remember my dad explaining to me who they were.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Of course.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
you know that your mother and I’m your father. We look after you I remember.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
So, of course we didn’t have that we wouldn’t survive because we would not seek we would not seek nourishment and mother’s milk and protection you know and then as we grow older we know we have to we have to realise it was separate. And that we can’t we can’t just command the universe. But megalomaniacs like Hitler and Stalin kind of had it heavy dose of narcissism. They just thought that the whole world was universe is for them.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I thought I’ve always wondered I wonder what people like Hitler I wonder what their deal was. What did they have wrong with them?
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
well you see I mean just that one consequences someone like Hitler can’t stand the idea of someone disagreeing with them with them you know. They have to be executed send them to the firing squad you know what you mean you don’t agree with me so that’sthe extreme but we’re all were all left over with it with a bit of that narcissism that we had when we were born. The problem is the problem is when we’ve got a big dose of it and we don’t know that and did we get the characteristics of someone who’s I would say very narcissistic. Person in the street I say someone who’s narcissistic I would just say someone is very narcissistic I am narcissistic everyone is.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
You know when I started reading about it I certainly started rethinking my behaviour a little bit more as I know I do some of this stuff.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
I mean that’s a it’s a double-edged sword really because it on the one hand you don’t want to beat yourself up. Oh my god I’ve got narcissistic personality disorder. You know I need some what drugs treated. But on the other hand it’s it’s it’s not useful just to deny it all and just go like oh it’s nothing wrong with me you know it’s just the world that’s wrong.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Well with me like I accept myself and I realise I’m not perfect now I do but I didn’t used to do that a few years ago I did used to beat myself up but now I’ve accepted myself and I realise you know you can still be okay and still have the problems because there’s no one that’s the perfect person. It took me 30 years to find that out though.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Only 30?
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I wish I figured out much younger.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Only 30 my goodness. I didn’t I didn’t start thinking about that till I was 35.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Oh really yeah.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
I thought when I was 30 I thought I was perfect
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I mean too. I mean I think I’ve got 33 or 34 like two months away and now I’ve sort of just accept myself and I’m trying to work on things I try to read about psychology try and see although I read about psychology I try not to look for problems in myself. You know there’s stuff I really don’t like I wonder if there is anything in these books that is talking about me but it’s not like I go out looking for errors in myself. If I see something in a book that reflects me then I might think about that a little bit more. Narcissism was one of the things and then I think with the reading it made me look at my life actually all throughout my life all the things that I had done that seems quite narcissistic.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Let me ask you a question here. How easily look look looking back over the years of your adult life yeah how easily did you take criticism or mistakes?
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Criticism. Well that was one part of the narcissism that I think all right with because I think I I don’t know who actually I’m not sure if I really did listen about with. It depends on the person I listened to some people more about about my negative behavior than I did others. Is that the answer you’re looking for? Something like that?
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
No I was looking for particular answer. I thought behind that was to know someone who’s very narcissistic. Won’t take criticism? They won’t they won’t be I mean if they see a mistake that is clearly they’ve done like they’re broken up, they’re dropped a bowl because you’re being careless then they might they might say oh yeah I’ve done that what they might say the bowl was slippery. Nothing to do with me.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Yeah yeah well actually I know people like that that just what will argue black is why it’s never I thought I know I’ve known people like that I’ve never really known them for long once I figure out that’s what they’re doing but with me I didn’t think I did it much and that was one part I am up my narcissism that I thought I did okay with because I would apologise to people I would try and do something about it and when I think about narcissism I don’t think narcissistic people do that.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
Absolutely you know.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
I think they’re usually nothing to do in me. It’s all you, my conscience is clear here.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
So I do meet people where I find it difficult to be around. If I can’t make some kind of I can’t share with them my experience of them I can’t say well I could, but I find it difficult to say. I was disappointed when you did this because X Y Z, because an excuse comes flying back at me or a criticism me and they just won’t let it in and then of course relationships ultimately can break down because of them.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Yeah yeah and because I’ve had narcissism from probably probably most of my life up until the last few years a lot of my early relationships didn’t last very long because I was probably with narcissistic girls as well because you know like attracts like and it was a vicious circle you know she wouldn’t admit she was know something wrong I wouldn’t do it either I try and blame her somehow.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
It’s your fault no it isn’t it’s your fault.
James
Presenter
Superfiscial friends
Yeah yeah I still wonder.
Richard
Therapist, Counsellor, Psychologist
Superfiscial friends
By the way I was interested in a turn of phrase. You just said when I realised I had narcissism. Like it, like it’s a disease. Have you got narcissism no I’m over it now what did the doctors know but, it’s not a disease.
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